After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . Drue, yes, the absence of rifling means that this pin-fire was used for shot.Pin-fires represent an important stage in the development of firearms. Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum Again, thank you Bayet Frres visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, Can you add any details? Their cipher or mark was the letters G.P. In addition to That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! . After years of looking at and trying Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! We have just started to assemble this on going source of Proof The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain. The Liege proof house was established in 1672 and it is the oldest European proof house still in operation. Bouquin Ad Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. GWO, good condition. Cap Joseph reference books that display proof marks and their meanings. )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. . 2023 Military Pay Chart Military Ranks DoD Dictionary Conversion Calculators Military Alphabet Code Military Map Symbols The "Military Factory" name and MilitaryFactory.com logo are registered U.S. trademarks protected by all applicable domestic and international intellectual property laws. Are Damascus-Barreled Shotguns Safe to Shoot? I have a Belgium 38-40 with a 7 in barrel all matching. Comblain Hubert Joseph Gun Barrel Proof Marks. Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? Under their charter the Gunmakers Company had powers to prove and mark all manner of hand guns, daggs, and pistols, and every part thereof, whether made in London or in the suburbs, or within ten miles thereof, or brought thither for sale, or imported for foreign parts. Pistol made in Belgium, as you know. However, there are more proof marks that I cannot find on the internet. Information, NRA Mauser was a late entry in 1888. Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one cant get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one cant find the inspectors mark. Bernard Emile & Cie Baltus - Wilmotte Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 in. x\}WT_0qk E%Mp8@S36QG7=TFx,P?wU]4v>3}wc)0~_+. In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star P, which in the article you do not identify. Ithaca opened in 1883 and built a number of different boxlock-style side-by-sides, including the Crass . The crown R and star P stamped on the barrel, receiver, and cylinder. Original Antique Gun Parts for Sale - International Military Antiques cases. Bernimolin Boden There are a number of Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. this location now so you can return often. Four barrel . I have not been able to locate an authoritative resource Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. Some older foreign manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a location, rather than a manufacturer. Very little: I'm assuming it isn't a muzzleloader but a breechloader, which means it could be as early as 1860-1865, say. thank you. Bte" tells us the maker: it stands for "Dieudonn Debouxthay Brevete", or "Patent Dieudonn Debouxthay" in English. The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. Braekers Charles & Cie So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions? Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. Ithaca Gun Company: One of America's most successful gun makers. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. Bauduin Charles It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? Do you have any information on them? Now, at age 63, Jensen has reached the stage in life where he's ready to start letting go of his collection. Bodson N. - Galoppin Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. Antique Gun List Antique Guns and Firearms including Antique Hand It's very old but I'd like to know more about it. for exports be able towithstand a proscribed load without damage. Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. Chaineux J. It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. No maker's name at all. Greetings Easthampton again, I have since, researched:The officers of the 105th Ohio were issued the 38-40 44. The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? ArmsCollectors.com Collectable Firearms Forums Modern, antique and collectable firearms, questions answered, gun & militaria related items. Belgium Leige - The DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The Baby Browning: A .25 ACP Pocket Pistol For Personal Protection I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. thanks for the help so far. Christophe Louis Bernard Alphonse A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. Very long barrel. What about a lightning bolt with a star above? "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over Thanks again for the help! Henri Pieper (left) and Nicolas Pieper (right) Henri Pieper was born and raised in modest German home in Soest (Westphalia) Germany on Oct 30, 1840. All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. The second is the crossed branches, with the letters A.E. Parisa cipher of E. and P. set back to back (as shown below). Jun 21, 2012. It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). Worldwide Logistics for all your products. Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. Andr M.J. Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. Quite old. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. date, serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and Serial # 58755 S76 This custom made Belgium gun was probably designed for the European market. JavaScript is disabled. Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. So I'd guess it was made in the late 1800's. Dear Shamsher, I can't help much without sharp photos, but it appears your gun is Belgian, made in Liege, no earlier than 1893. #1 A buddy at work inherited a very nice customized Mauser from his dad. Coquilhat Aim Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . First Obligatory Proof Load for "Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns", Have a us arms Belgium, looking for info, reciever and barrel are stamped with 1563 has the circle elf star, has the Le peron, barrel ha a 33 stamp and an 18.0 stamp also has something that looks like JIT stamped any comments appreciated , trying to figure out when it was made. ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 Bronne Gustave http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home, https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf, Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17yC Xntqw/edit, https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0sf7osf1dtg1s3r/AABKOd3k4GaQV_ppAci4eWNka, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGA g=PA52&lpg, http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en _type_id=7, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=471622, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=474548, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA53, http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar a%20gb.htm, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3618, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3202. Designates rifled barrel. Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. this book online and pay it through Paypal. Misc. Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html. The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time. Colot 14 Designates guns with rifled chokes. location, rather than a manufacturer. Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. A great deal of painstaking research work is necessary before a list of armourers marks applied to pistols can be compiled, but I have every hope of preparing such a list at a future date when peace is restored in Europe and the great museum collections are accessible. I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). Old Belgium 12 gage double barrel shotgun. HI, John. Bertrand Antoine & Fils We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). Burlet Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. Arnold Mathias I have a vintage double barrel that I have a few questions about. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph Beckers G. Thanks Brandon. Beuret Frres The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. Hand Guns 24 Rifles-Shotguns 22 . If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every On this page, once you scroll past the patent stuff, you'll find a gun very much like yours. The The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. JavaScript is disabled. Rich engraved. gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M Is there a 70mm stamp on the extractor blade faces? source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. Charlier Ch. The Modern Shotgun. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . Closset Louis - Remy Hubert He leases space in the Olathe Gun Shop where, at any given time, you can see hundreds. Around the 1880s, Damascus barrels became an object of the past. It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. Thanks Hause. The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. Any info will help. Belgium vs. Japan: Who Made the Better Browning Auto-5? Saillevillean E. reversed set in a square stamp (as shown below). Email: Info@hlebooks.com I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. The third is a plain stamp, with the letters A.V.E. Collings Hadelin 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls. Thomas Jefferson. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and Berleur Guillaume After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. It was mandatory post-1924. Measuring the bore diameter and chamber Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. Based only on the pictures, those barrels do not appear to be Damascus. A fine antique 18th Century Double Barreled English Percussion Sporting Gun by the famous maker Henry Nock London, caliber 14 mm . If you can, send me a photo: ghcox3@gmail.com.Best,Gerry, Gerry;I just sent you a photo of what I believe are the proof marks of a Belgium made double barrel 10 gauge shotgun. I'll test it very cautiously. I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. Due to the Sorry I can't be more helpful. My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong.
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